Episode 273 – Babe Herman But Not THAT Babe Herman

Episode 273 – Babe Herman But Not THAT Babe Herman

[Music] Hello everybody welcome to another episode of two strike noise your favorite weekly history of baseball podcast you all have been here before I think you know what I usually say but my name is Jeff I’m one half the show rejoining me after his rehab stint at the chico gas station sushi I think that was our doublea club it is Mark a Johnston Mark welcome back into the fold you all rehabed ready to go oh it’s good to be back I’m tanned and rested and ready it’s very sunny in Chico apparently I yeah okay it was at least while I was there okay well while you were away Mark we had a guest last week I think you’re aware of that we had I am yes yes we talked about the 1987 season David from the 1988 Topps podcast joined us we had a good time at least we did I think listeners did too we got some some new listeners uh that are entered into the sweep Stakes here for this Dave Stewart autograph replica Jersey I ask a couple of questions one from my appearance on the 1988 Tops podcast and then one from David’s appearance on our show last week you had to listen to both shows to know what the answers were and dm’d us on Blue Sky we appreciate everybody certainly appreciate any new listeners and and uh hope well I’m guessing you’ll be back for this show at least see if you won the the the got to see if you you won the prize D I mean there’s only 15 Black Aces you get an autographed replica Jersey of who I think is the coolest I mean maybe Bob Gibson is pretty cool I I think yeah Bob was Bob was pretty cool Bob was pretty he was pretty tough yeah I think if you had a cool off between Stu and Bob Gibson it would be pretty pretty close I wonder why isn’t especially now since the Negro League stats are considered Major League wouldn’t Satchel Page and and quite a few others be Black Aces as well yeah you would think so yeah I am going to ask Mr Stewart about that because I think I think they should definitely expand it now huh that’s a you just everybody just witnessed a realtime thought in how my brain was there it was I don’t suggest you use that method no well that was my one thought for the day so let’s yeah wipe that clean from your memories folks or else you’re going to start hosting a baseball History Podcast oh boy yeah you don’t want to do that we don’t need the competition no we really we really don’t we we don’t but let’s get into a BP here Mark get you back ready to go for today’s episode and last week this happened right as we were we were recording it broke that Rocky calavo passed away last week unfortunately and so I just wanted to bring that up and talk about Rocky he was a nine-time Allstar 1959 became the second player in American League history to hit four consecutive home runs in a nine inning game that’s pretty impressive yeah that’s not bad the first guy to do it was some guy named Lou Garrick who did it in 1932 but Babe Ruth never did it no no Rocky calavo L gar let’s see also he had 11 consecutive Seasons with double digigit home runs 374 for his career and there is this thing that people believe in I mean people believe in curses in just normal life but in baseball for sure there is the curse of Rocky calavo that would be when he left Cleveland they have they didn’t make the postseason until 1995 after he left Cleveland and he left Cleveland after the 1959 season oh wow and obious viously they have not won a a World Series since Callo curse yeah I well I I think they’ve got the longest running drought now for a world that that have won a World Series before yes I don’t want to upset my Mariner fans there good we’re already upset yeah well I mean that’s at least you get a team Rocky calavo by the way pitched he pitched two games in his career 1958 and 1968 that might be the longest stretch in between appearances for a pitcher in the big leagues I don’t I don’t know I’m just making that up but I mean there’s 10 years and he has an overall erra of 0.0 overall two games five and two3 innings wow one appearance was three Innings and the other appearance was two and two3 innings those are not just mop up in a blowout well I mean it could be but he only gave up one hit he did walk five he struck out out two and committed a b Bob Davidson must have B for for a position player no I mean that’s I didn’t I hadn’t scrolled down to that for a for an outfielder to have pitched five innings and and only given up one hit that’s pretty darn impressive but wanted to make mention of it we’re a we’re a baseball History Podcast obviously also want to make this just dropped today Mark so we’re recording this on Thursday Sammy Sosa just posted a letter on social media earlier today apologizing for he now he he did nowhere in this does he say he apologizes for using steroids but he says quote there were times I did whatever I could to recover from injuries and an effort to keep my strength up to perform over 162 games I never broke any laws but in hindsight I made mistakes and I apologize end quote H so I mean he’s you know what he’s saying here I mean yeah it’s kind of weasy way to do it yeah but now this is the thing the Cubs immediately released a statement saying hey we love Sammy you’re now invited to come and do things with us because he had not been invited back by the Cubs because of the steroids right and so now he has made this apology he’s kissed the ring I guess of the team without again I’m sure he worked in coordination with them and what this was going to say because again he does not say the word steroids at any point but he’s kissed the ring and they said that he’s going to be at the Cubs convention in 2025 so interesting I mean the team’s pretty much just as much at fault here though right I mean everybody in that organization knew what was going on they all look the other way yeah yeah I I don’t like any part of this and remember Sosa you know in front of Congress and whenever anybody would ask him about this all of a sudden he’d forget how to speak English so sneaky he’s still not even he did like the least amount that he needed to do to just be able to come back and be seen at Wrigley Field again I don’t know I’m not pleased either way about it but that just happened and obviously we talk about Sammy Sosa a bit here I was doing some research Mark and I was looking at at Albert Spalding’s numbers yeah so we’ve talked about Spalding a lot I mean he is in the Hall of Fame he’s in the Hall of Fame as a executive and actually had a very short Major League career seven years he did not play Beyond age 26 and I don’t know why because I’m just looking this baseball reference page I’m not wasn’t actually doing research on him per se but my God there is Black Ink all over his numbers yeah I I remember looking at that and thinking I had no idea Spalding was this good of a hitter he still holds well I’m talking about pitching first okay so and this all had to do with SH Otani and two-way players he still holds the major league career Mark of win loss percentage at 794 with a 251 wins to 65 losses that’s insane his final year 1877 he only appeared in four games as a pitcher he had no record the other six years of his career he led the league in wins with 19 38 41 52 54 and 47 is that good I guess so I mean he’s the career leader in win loss percentage he also led the league in war twice with an 11 and a 12.8 wow and in 1874 and I want to highlight 18 1974 specifically he went 52 and 16 wow pitched 71 games started 69 finished 65 of them jeez four shutouts to lead the league he pitched 67 and a third Innings how how does somebody even do that I thought his arm would have fallen off three times by that at that point he also gave up the most hits with 755 when you run 600 Innings yeah I think you’re going to give up a few knocks we’ll allow that home runs per nine innings 0 Z wow he gave up in 6117 in a third Innings now okay this is 1874 but he gave up one home run that’s yeah that’s that’s a good percentage that is crazy now you mentioned his batting if we go to his 1874 batting numbers as a pitcher he hit 329 he led the league in plate appearances and at bats well when you pitch 4,000 Innings you’re going to bat a couple of times W 334 on base as well I I mean it’s just crazy numbers I was blown away by by these numbers for a two-way player at that point but I mean I think pretty much everybody was right yeah he did all things well and including Sporting Goods that’s right yeah absolutely now I forget and I I apologize for forgetting is he the one that commissioned the report that named abar double day as the inventor of baseball I think I think he might have been it I don’t recall it was either he or kiski but we’ll have to knock some points off him if if it was him because we all know that’s ridiculous Mark now I know you will like this one this one I I wrote down just for you I’m I’m researching baseball myths for a video and something we’ve talked about here before these myths but this one I found somebody had asked hey give me your give me your best baseball myths and somebody wrote Derek Jeter was an elite defensive shortstop I knew you’d like that one that’s good that’s I wish I’d come up with it all right since we last spoke you and I mark my new team spent some money on on a outfielder yeah they they spent some money that’s putting it lightly yeah so there are articles everywhere about Wan SoDo and the the contract that he signed and the money and and all that kind of stuff but I found an interesting one that was written by the BBC baseball probably not a lot of people in in Europe or in the UK probably not as familiar with baseball as we are just as most most people here not as familiar with Cricket as I’m sure people in in the UK are so some interesting things in this article that was really written as an explainer as to who is this person and why is he in the news and why is he being paid this much and so here’s here’s some highlights from the article quote it shows the excitement in the Mets camp at securing a player with big batting averages and accolades to his name last season his batting average and then in parenthesis the measure of a player’s successful hits which that’s misleading in the MLB there’s a pet PE of mine in the Major League Baseball was 0.288 they put a zero in front of of his average and then in quotes the 16th highest so if I know nothing about baseball and I read this I’m like wait so there were 15 guys that were better than him and this guy is making right you know this much money well yeah they don’t bring up the home runs no well I mean that’s not important nothing is important except for the measure of a player’s successful hits with a 0.288 that’s awesome the 16th highest in the MLB maybe maybe we should apply to be their MLB writer they might need a new one after this well I mean they could just link to our podcast and that’s all I’m willing to do it’s the bare minimum all right I’ll be happy to write a column every week well you have to learn to write first well I’m taking lessons come on man and then you got to learn to read what you’ve written I mean there’s a lot of work here Mark you’re you’re kind of behind the eightball here to start out with but all right that’s going to do it for our BP segment let’s get into the main segment of the show Mark today we’ve mentioned this guy before we’ve mentioned somebody that is named similar to him before but today I want to talk about Floyd caves Herman his middle name is caves caves okay I don’t know if they were his family were big spelunkers that’s highly possible I don’t know we love caves let name our kid after him well and I’ll tell you if if if that name doesn’t tell you who it is right away you we’ll get to it here in a minute George was born in Buffalo New York in 1903 raised in Glendale California George’s sojourn into baseball began when he was just 18 and he signed with the minor league Edmonton Eskimos in Alberta Canada that name by the way was still in use with the Edmonton Canadian Football League team until 2020 and now they are the Edmonton Elks cuz I I knew that sounded familiar and I know we have a large contingent of crossover listeners from my CFL podcast it’s football eh so yeah that’s I love that one yeah it’s it’s very highly rated great show so in Edmonton a female fan would often shout at George babe get a hit which is kind of weird because he was 18 at the time and there’s probably some cougar there in the stands like come on babe babe give me a hit she’s probably up there drinking beer and munching on some ketchup flavored potato chips and smoking a cigar the next spring when Herman gets signed by Detroit and he goes to spring training with tigers he was asked hey do you have a nickname or you want to call should we call you George what what do you want to be called and he says call me Lefty now he he did Lefty he he was left-handed so I mean that works Tigers coach Dan Howley thought hey that’s too common of a name we already got like seven lefties here give me something else so George mentions his female stalker had called him babe and hiy responded all right for now on you’re my babe so this is the story of Babe Herman it should be noted that there was another prominent athlete called babe Herman at this time who was a boxer like a really well-known boxer and there was also some other baseball player in Boston there’s from Who Framed Roger Rabbit there’s baby Herman so don’t get those guys mixed up either oh certainly don’t want to and of course the the other baseball player in Boston had a somewhat similar name as well I don’t know what happened to him so during spring training 1922 Herman pinch hit for ta Cobb in a game did well but there were no openings in the outfield for Detroit so he was sent back down to the miners where he just went ahead and hit 416 for the season no call up 416 all right that’s that’s rough not to get a call yeah uh his break came in 1925 when a scout for the Brooklyn Robins who were previously called the Dodgers and then would later also be called the Dodgers famously stated quote he’s kind of funny in the field but when I see a guy go six for six I gotta go for him end quote so Herman made his major league debut in 1926 as a first baseman he hit 319 and quickly established himself as obviously a great hitter finishing fourth in the national league in doubles and seventh in home runs in August in a game against Pittsburgh babe had nine straight hits against the bucks but only four days later maybe the thing that people still think of when they think of Babe Herman so there’s one out and the bases are loaded B hits a Fly ball to deep right field it’s you know 50/50 ball whether it’s going to be caught or not it wasn’t it bounces off the Outfield wall all three runners on base takeoff the lead Runner Hank DeBry from third he scores the go-ahead Run dazzy Vance who started on second he comes around third and then stops and goes back to third thinking he might not make it home the runner on first chick Fuster watching Vance round third and start to go home so he rounds second goes to third at the same time that Vance stopped and went back to the bank so our Boy George Herman slid into second base with a double but then he looks up and sees a throw from The Outfield going home so he gets up and he heads to third Vance is already at third and it’s his base rightfully and then Fuster shows up and then Here Comes our our boy babe so the Fielder just starts tagging everybody they get the ball to third it’s just starts tagging everybody it’s a good move babe is credited with an RBI double double play it’s like a double double stack or a that’s hilarious the double ended up being the game-winning RBI which had anybody cared to use that incredible stat back then would have been good but that play along with some other mishaps on the diamond throughout his career painted babe is a bit of a goofball and often was not given the credit he was due for his talent because of these lapses so season ends babe goes back home to California for the off season and he ends up doubling for Tris spe speaker in a movie called slide Kelly slide which we’ve mentioned before yeah we have it’s it’s Loosely based on King Kelly who we have mentioned before and includes an actor named Harry Cary but not that Harry Cary right this Harry Cary I counted them by the way 258 films wow I just Googled how many films was Harry KY in and it said somewhere around 90 but then I went to IMDb page and I’m like that’s more than 90 I had to count him by hand 258 that’s crazy yeah worked a lot that’s a hardworking person and he showed his industry yeah he was like four or five films a year it’s a lot so his sophomore season his batting takes a little dip he only hit 272 but then he started a streak of five straight Seasons hitting 313 or higher I’m using batting average here simply because that’s what baseball used as the end off be all at that point of time the measure of his success successful hitting exactly the measure of a player successful hits that’s all they cared about so using some of today’s metrics he was around a three and a half War player for each of those seasons and had a 139 Ops Plus on average during those years so still a very good player all of this offense was great there was no DH back then so babe obviously had to play defense as well or more accurately I’m going to just say he had to be in the field he was not a great Fielder regularly led the league in offensive categories but also in erors just it’s black ink straight down the E column 1928 another incident happened that forever stuck with babe A Fly ball to right field bounced off the right Fielder’s head and over the wall Alla Jose cono nice the thing is it bounced off Al Tyson’s head not babes Tyson had replaced babe a few Innings earlier but the official scorer failed to notice the substitution now Mark I know you’ve been an official score for some games before wouldn’t a defensive substitution like that have fallen under the purview of the official scores duties it’s noted by the Umpire the coach or whoever makes the move takes it out notifies the Umpire and then it’s the not it’s the umpire’s job to notify the official scorer yes well so are you blaming the Umpire now you’re sticking to you’re sticking with your official score depends if you told them or not I’m going to I mean it says several Innings past so I I would think I he this guy might have even hit in the interim I don’t know but babe would later say quote never once did I get hit on the head by a Fly ball once or twice on the shoulder maybe but never on the head end quote there you go so talking about his defense teammate Fresco Thompson once said quot quot he wore a glove for one reason because it was League custom end quot Herman developed a self deprecating attitude towards his defensive skills and when a local bank informed him that somebody had been impersonating him and cashing bad checks he told them hit him a few fly balls if he catches any it ain’t me his teammate dazzy Vance we mentioned him earlier he dubbed babe the Headless Horseman of ebot’s field nice his 1929 batting average of 381 was a team record but it would only stand for one season as in 1930 babe hit 393 and did not win the batting title bill Terry hit 401 wow that’s rough yeah he also broke Club records for home runs and RBIs he also hit 35 home runs that year and knocked in 130 and ended up with an Ops of 1.1 32 now see that’s nice BBC there is there’s there’s where you can put a number in front of a a point for baseball statistics Ops as long as it’s a a one he had a 455 on base percentage and ended the season with a career-high 6.9 War that’s still half of of of Spalding’s Best Year yes but I mean I guess you had pitching that incredible pitching and the incredible batting so that makes sense this is true and this takes into account his defense included in this incredible offensive season were some more babe things on two occasions That season Herman stopped to watch a home run while running the bases and was passed by the guy who hit the home run in each case causing the home run to only count as a single 1931 Herman’s batting average dipped to an anemic 313 but he did lead the league with 77 extra base hits but to add to the babe lure he was thrown out trying to steal a base against the Cardinals despite the opposing catcher being 48-year-old Cardinals manager and friend of the Pod Gabby Street Gabby was behind the plate appearing in his first game since 1912 this is 1931 now that’s crazy Street was the ebuck similar to the ebug for my my hockey fans out there who are again from my CFL podcast babe was traded to the Cincinnati Reds before the 1932 season because of a salary dispute and when the red and with the Reds he rebounded by Leading the league with 19 triples and somehow a very improved defense he led all national league right fielders in putouts with 392 establishing a still-standing Major League record according to a saber bio though I I spent like a half hour trying to confirm this and I was unable to I do not think that this is still the record uh but he did it in only 146 games the Reds were having Financial issues so they traded babe to the Chicago Cubs where babe made news hitting three home runs in a single game and achieving his third career cycle the first player to achieve a cycle in both the American and the national league after a brief stint with the Pirates Herman returned to the Reds in 1935 and made history when he hit the first ever home run in a major league night game against the Dodgers at Crosley field babe spent the next two years in Detroit before signing with the Hollywood stars of the PCL playing in front of his hometown fans for six seasons and Mark we’ve talked about how great the PCL was in terms of talent it was still not considered a major league but the talent was was very close if not equal to who the major leag they had quite a few really good players yeah I’m somebody named dagio comes to mind when I think of PCL but regardless babe hit over 300 every season and was beloved by his friends and fans and family that came and and watched him play every day and he really enjoyed his time there then in 1942 he was involved in another Hollywood production this time in one of the most popular baseball movies of all time Major League 3 wait no that’s sand lot no not sand Lot 2 Pride of the Yankees oh sure that one yeah a little bit better than those other two Gary Cooper portrayed Garrick but had never played baseball in his life and it was painfully obvious babe was a technical consultant and served as a double for Cooper in long shots of garri hitting then in 1945 the Dodgers were involved in a pennant race general manager Branch Ricky contacted Herman who was 42 at this point and he hadn’t been in a big league game for eight years asked him if he’d come back and help the depleted team because the war had obviously we’ve talked about this many of the players went and served their country he played his final major league game with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1945 at the age of 42 where he was welcomed and and treated very well by the Dodger fans Herman’s impressive career stats include a 324 batting average 1,818 hits 181 home runs and nearly 1,000 RBI over 1552 games he hit over 308 times in the big leagues after retirement he scouted for several teams for about 10 years he’s credited with signing several players who went on to the major leagues including Wally Westlake Ed Fitzgerald Paul Blair and ver law father to Vance who’s been on the show in retirement he raised orchids in the backyard of the home that he lived at for 56 years one of his cross breeds was called bab’s baby it was a pure Red Orchid that once sprouted 46 blooms on one plant which I assume everybody knows is impressive if you listen to my other podcast all about orchids a which is also T Canadians yeah yes that’s a that’s a good one across the research I did there were many comments about some of the funny lines that babe would say when being interviewed I searched so hard I could not find any of them first of all because if you do a search for for babe Herman on the internet 98% of the stuff you find is going to be about Babe Ruth so that wasn’t cool but supposedly he was the first one to reply to a young woman who had commented to him my but you look cool Mr Herman and he said you don’t look so hot yourself but that line is credited to Yogi Bara who obviously came along quite a bit later than than Mr Herman here paging Mr Herman that’s been in my head the whole time reference yeah uh so George died in Glendale California in 1987 at age 84 following about with pneumonia and a series of Strokes looking at Babe’s career numbers there sure seems to be a case that he might be a fringe Hall of Famer here yeah just listening to the numbers you’re telling me that’s a quite a number of Seasons where he was way over the top it was kind of a shorter career 13 years so he did make the 10-year Mark that you gotta make to do it but looking at his career numbers on baseball reference especially the similarity scores he is listed alongside Hall of Famers chick hay Tony ala and Ed aaral and also another Hall of Famer he’s similar to George high pockets Kelly who of course is considered generally to be one of the least worthy Hall of Fame members despite the 80g grade nickname for being tall but uh there you have it there is Babe Herman not not George Herman Babe Ruth that’s good stuff man if it seems like he fits in with our our Pantheon of strike is he’s definitely one of those hidden gems goofballs yeah all right Mark it is time going to the final segment of the show which as everybody that’s ever listened to the show knows is wax packs Heroes but Mark you’re still on the sideline here so when we recorded the show last week we had such a good time David and I that uh we went a little bit long talking about the 1987 Major League Baseball season that we did not get to wax packs Heroes last week but we recorded one so we’re going to go ahead and David is going to be playing for you and we’re going to go ahead and jump into that right [Music] now going to pull a wax back [Music] her hero want Bast tonight all right if you are a firsttime listener if you just love listening to rules if you’re a rules fan this is what we do we’re going to take some cards in this case believe it or not we’re going to take some 1988 Tops and what we’re going to do is we are going to play war with each other we’re each going to get a card we’re each going to throw it down really hard and what we’re going to do is we’re going to use the baseball reference war from the year of the card so in this case 1988 and whoever’s got the highest value per round wins that round first to five wins the game there are a couple of modifiers though anything that we judge as 80s baseball Aesthetics that means real stirups where we can see sanitary socks means those big science teacher sunglasses flip down sunglasses eye black good mustaches anything like that as an extra tenth of a point if you have got a great mustache we’re talking Wade bogs or Tom la is that that who we mentioned earlier you can be awarded an extra bonus tenth of point on top of that but if we see things that we don’t like like two in one stirups Kent herck uh that’ll be a minus tenth of a point if the player won any awards that year meaning Rookie of the Year Sai Young MVP if they were an Allstar or w a gold glove that’s a half a point each if there’s a Hall of Famer on the card whether they are the focus or not that is an extra point if Ricky Henderson shows up on any card regardless of who who owns that card I automatically win the round now normally we use Nolan Ryan who is Mark’s favorite player as the as his version of Ricky Henderson David I’m gonna let you name a player that if if we pull him automatically you win the round so as a white socks fan in 1988 when I was pulling a card I would have said Carlton Fisk so the crotchy old catcher all right so you will win that round automatically if we can find any pop culture references easily they are going to be worth a half a point unless they made an appearance on Seinfeld The Simpsons or Sabrina the Teenage Witch in which case you will get a full point for each of those and if they were suspended during their career or appeared in the Mitchell report at any point that is going to be a minus half a point so I have got this I don’t know what these are called it’s a cellophane P well I guess they were called cellos weren’t they I I mhm rack packs and cellos and wax packs so I’ve got some 88 here and it is really sealed like a mother there and we’re going to take this now as you are the guest I’m going to let you decide whether you want to be home or away I’m going to I’m going to go with away all right and I’ve got two piles of five cards here one on the left one on the right which one would you like I’m going to go left left all right and you said you wanted to be away so you’re going to go first all right here we go by the way the score is 12 to 10 I am leading Mark at this point all right well youve got this is going to be a good card here for you youve got with the California the California Angels Brian Downing famously on the Jefferson shirtless hanging out with Wheezy all right so we already know you’re going to get some pop culture points coming up but let’s take a look at Brian Downing The Incredible Hulk I think he should have been called The Incredible bulk that would have been a little bit more on point but overall 12 years in the big leagues 13 with the angels five with your white socks and two with the Texas Rangers so in 1988 with four the Angels he appeared in 135 games hit 242 362 on base uh 25 home runs 64 RBI three stolen bases not bad a 128 Ops plus and a war of 3.0 even which is a good score right off the bat but looking at this card he has got some eye black back on and he is definitely got real stirups and he is also wearing his hat under his batting glove which is under his batting glove he’s also wearing his hat under his batting helmet which we are going to call an 80s baseball aesthetic because you don’t see that anymore so that will be three extra T of a point there we’re going to go with the pop culture reference The Jeffersons how in the world does Brian Downing end up on The Jeffersons so Wheezy Jefferson was sneaking into Angel’s locker room to meet Reggie Jackson and instead bumps into a shirtless Brian Downey well that’s because I don’t know if it gets an extra tenth of a point because he’s not wearing a shirt but well this is all because George dropped a Reggie Jackson home run I meant more of why is Brian Downing being cast in a prime time sitcom not just here but also in Different Strokes two prime time appearances by Brian Downey I you know I think it’s it just goes to show he he was built like Lu fno very muscly guy when this was that was not necessarily the invogue a very good player he had a sneaky good career he also had one of the best pictures when he played for the white socks he looks like a police officer he’s got giant giant Shades and the red white sock hat with the powder blue uniform just a fantastic I the thing I remember about Brian Downey is he was a big guy a designated hitter outfielder but he let off a lot of times he was a topof thee order guy led the league in walks once 1197 career walks only 1127 career strikeouts for a 370 career on base that’s unheard of for somebody that had some pop to be at the top of the order and and having more walks than strikeouts very interesting y very good career so that’ll be a half a point and that will take you up to 3.8 that’s a very good score especially considering that I’ve got a manager card get a manager card for your Chicago White Socks as well it’s Jim fosi traded for Nolan Ryan from the angels to the Mets and it didn’t go well for him but he he had half of a Hall of Fame career with the angels again in obscurity playing in LA on the second team but very good player in his time yeah 18 years in the big leagues 11 with the angels five with the Rangers Mets and pirates for two uh overall a 48.7 war that’s higher than Dave Parker managed for the Phillies the white socks the angels and the Blue Jays now normally you can win with a manager card if the other players’s card was really bad and is in the minus but there is really I mean I might get 80s BAS baseball Aesthetics because he’s wearing the the the curly C and the white socks batter logo which is really cool but that’s even I do like that jacket it’s a very good jacket yeah I love that logo and this was this was number on the on the pants time for the white socks I believe so that’s good too all right so you’re up one to nothing your next card is an expo oh wow you’re really really do well with this one it is uh Randy St Clair pitcher for the Montreal expose now let’s see nine years in the big leagues five with the Expos two in Atlanta and then the twins Reds and blue jays for one a piece looking in 19808 he split time between Cincinnati and Minnesota uh let’s see overall a 1 and0 Mark 3.86 ra only 16 games they were all in relief 21 Innings 24 hits 14 strikeouts a 97 ra plus and that is a war of minus. three there is no beard or mustache here see now if I had the manager card here Jim fosi would have kicked his butt but instead I have got Cleveland pitcher Scott Bales have you done a Scott Bales episode before I have not we haven’t done Randy St Clair either Randy say Clair sounds made up Scott bals left-handed pitcher nine years in the big leagues as you can well that’s why I said he was left-handed four in Cleveland three in California two for the Rangers 198 8 with Cleveland he went 9 and4 with a 4.90 erra most of his games he started he had five complete games and two shutouts wow 145 Innings pitched 149 hits allowed only struck out 53 for an RA plus of 84 but that is a war of 0.2 nothing on this card this just a Head and Shoulder shot Scott is the co- announcer on the Ozark CW calling games for the spring Cardinals the daa affiliate of the St Louis Cardinals he served on the Springfield Cardinal city council from 20 from 2009 to 2013 well that’s interesting but it’s not pop culture enough Scott Bales is going to get me the win there over Randy stclair and I look forward to those two episodes airing soon on the 1988 times podcast all right well now I know he’s got such a detailed Wikipedia going to get on that one your next player is for the Blue Jays it is designated hitter Juan bz Juan bz is going to get me some maybe some hair points yeah he’s got well I I don’t I don’t I would consider this more of an afro than a Jerry curl Jerry curl to me I don’t know white boy that grew up in Salt Lake City Jerry curl to me is shiny and this is not and I don’t know if that has any sort of bearing as to whether it is considered an afro or a Jerry curl and I apologize in advance to anybody who I have just offended I am I’m not entirely sure it is it is very curly it’s a good looking head of hair oh he does have some wristbands so that’s nice I don’t think that he they have his face on they’re not Mims bands they don’t have his jersey number nor are they McDonald’s branded which are generally the three things that we look for in wristbands overall 17 years in the big leagues five with the angels four with the Red Sox three with the Rangers two with the blue jays and then Baltimore Seattle the Yankees and the Royals for parts of Seasons 1988 was his final year in the big leagues it was with Toronto he only appeared in 27 games he hit 293 not bad 373 on base one home run eight RBI and a 112 Ops for a war of2 Juan won a gold glove in 1977 career 274 average played in 1500 game that’s a solid career a solid player to have on your roster one of those guys that fills out the roster that everybody needs and he’s going to play he has a Stadium named after him in San Sebastian Puerto Rico oh very very nice that’s surprising to me I didn’t know that he would be Stadium worthy traded for recording artist rert Jones at one point I think I’m going to give you I’ll give you a tenth of a point on the hair just as somebody that is lacking it I’m going to go ahead and just I’m a little jealous also played in the senior professional League where he hit 359 for the St Lucy Legends so you have got a three and you’re going to be going up against wow did not put the best cards in the top of these packs I got Pirate pitcher Jeff Robinson all right so this Jeff Robinson nine years in the big leagues Giants for four pirates for three Yankees Cubs and angels for parts of seasons in 1988 11 and5 five with the Bucks 303 average out of the bullpen 75 games nine saves 124 Innings 113 hits allowed 87 strikeouts for a 112 erra plus and that is good for a war of 1.3 that’s uh that’s a good season that’s pretty much it nothing on the card is going to help me out traded at one point for Rick rushell Big Daddy and also traded for Sluggo at one point Don slot that enough for a win Jeff Robinson puts down Juan Bonz now this next one this will be this will be quick because he is on our do not Talkabout list your next card is Cleveland outfielder Mel Hall o he’s one that we have not figured out how we’re going to do an episode on Mel Hall yeah let’s now I do remember he was with the Yankees when Ricky was there and I remember he does have what I would consider a Jerry curl in this picture it’s uh spring training it’s him holding a bat from the from the waist up I will give you Jerry curl points he’s not wearing batting gloves which would normally get you points but this is clearly a posed picture overall 13 years in the big leagues five with Cleveland four with the Yankees and Cubs and one for the Giants 1988 in Cleveland he hit 280 in 150 games 312 on base six home run 71 RBI a 95 Ops plus and a minus point2 War so that that Jerry curl money will at least come in handy to take you to a minus .1 but not a great season there by Mel and then I’m probably going to lose points for oh his I mean the the off the field stuff yeah kind of hard to ignore we’re not going to talk about a lot well we’re not going to talk about at all he’s on the do not talk about list but in 84 quite a trade that he was involved with the Cubs sent him and Joe Carter and some other players to Cleveland for George Frasier Ron hassie and somebody that we’ve talked about earlier Rick Sutcliff but huge trade for the Cubs that led to them winning the National League East and going to the playoffs so you’ve got melal and I have got for the Cubs I’ve got Bob darer the deer is he gonna be able to beat Mel Hall’s well minus point6 you’re GNA get points just because of Bob dar’s look on this card this is one of the coolest looking cards it’s not quite Dave Stewart but I we covered this card and actually a listener then sent me a signed copy of it and that is a a great gift yeah so he’s got he’s got the eye block on he doesn’t have just I mean he wanted to make sure the eye block was effective uh this is a very thick strip from the bridge of his nose almost to his Temple I mean he really wanted to make sure that that was covered uh I love the pullover I might though give you points for the mock turtleneck that he’s wearing a little bit before the time of the mock turtlenecks in 1988 but that’s that’s a good look overall darer 10 years in the big leagues Phillies for six Cubs for four 1988 let’s see 100 I’m sorry 68 games played 289 average 330 on base one home run 10 RBI he did have 13 stolen bases and a 92 Ops Plus for a war of 0.4 so assuming he’s not in j I think I’m going to win this round as well yeah he he did some coaching for the Cubs ran a baseball training C in Kansas City you know just Norm postc career stuff for Bob darer but he teamed up with Ryan Samberg in 1984 Harry krey called him the Daily Double he was also on the 1983 Phillies played in the playoffs there and then was traded to the Cubs the next year so as the leadoff man for the Cubs team just had a a great season in 1984 won a gold glove there as well I didn’t realize the stolen base numbers for for Bob Dair 28 in his career including looks like seven consecutive seasons of double figures of stolen bases but I will take it Bob Dair over Mel Hall that puts me up three to one Mark might be on the bullpen phone to you here very shortly all right now you’ve got a legitimate shot here you have got first baseman for the San Diego pod is John Croc I was going to mention that earlier cuz you said they the cards from 1988 had a lot of guys that didn’t look like baseball players and John krook’s book famously called I’m not a baseball player or I’m not an athlete ma’am I’m a baseball player K overall 10 years in the big leagues Phillies for six San Diego for four and then just a part of a season in ’95 his final year with the white socks in 1988 for the dad heads in 120 games he hit 241 369 on base nine home runs 44 RBI a 13 RBI RBI plus a 113 Ops plus and that is good for a war of 1.3 the card itself looks like it’s probably during batting practice he’s got a jacket on he’s a little sweaty but he is wearing a batting helmet with no ear flaps which is definitely an 80s baseball aesthetic so you will get a tenth of a point for that we haven’t had anybody with a mustache yet what’s up with that so I don’t know if this gets him points but this is this is a a great move to retire he made a decision that he was done and told his teammates you know I’m out of here he gets a hit is stranded on third base on May 12th for the white socks 1995 and then he took himself out of the game and retired in the middle of the game at Camden Yards in the first inning well we should mention this as well appears in RBI Baseball on the Super Nintendo Entertainment System and with that let’s head over to the RBI Corner no wait the wrong wrong extending this out to two hours we do cover every player who’s in the RBI Baseball set or who is in the set who was in the game RBI Baseball John krook is one of the more inexplicable inclusions in there because he was a basically a rookie in 1987 he was in his second year he hit 313 but 20 home runs that was a a good year but that doesn’t really make sense why he was on the bench in RBI Baseball he’s going to get some pop culture points he was in the fan the sand lot heading home is that a I think that was the third one he was in aquatine hunger forest and and we have mentioned this before that he feared for his life as the FBI was looking into him at one point even visiting him at stadiums to interview him about a crime with one of the one of his roommates that I think he had down in Winter ball one year he fits right in exactly with what we like to talk about here I will give you the yeah you’re going to get a pop culture Point you’ll get a you’ll get a half a point for that also in the celebrity softball game oh but that’s not the that’s a Taco Bell that’s not rock and jock but yeah he’s does do I get extra aesthetic points for the brown windbreaker and the ice cream helmet that he’s wearing yeah I gave you I gave you points for the helmet for the for the no no ear flaps but yeah I do I get extra pop culture point because he looks like Tommy Boy in this picture it was warm during batting practice and he’s wearing a jacket maybe he was trying to make weight I don’t know but that is that is a great card let’s see how you could do so you got a 1.9 here and you’re going to be going up against I know his nickname is Benz but I like to call him the Zinger it’s Todd benzinger here with the Red Sox this is not a flattering picture of Todd either yet somehow better than the John crook I Mercedes not Benz I I I’m messed up his nickname but overall nine years in the big leagues three with Cincinnati three with the Giants two with Boston and then the Dodgers in the Royals in 1988 with Boston in 120 games hit 254 293 on base 13 home runs 70 RBI a 96 Ops plus and a war of exactly zero nothing on this card is going to help me out either he was traded at one point for the asasin Nick asasi two nicknames that I’ve made up there and also traded for one of my guys Carmelo Martinez I think Todd benzinger was wellth thought of for the Red Sox he was he hit 323 in 1987 at Triple A and then was called up and you know he didn’t really quite pan out as they expected but he ended up playing nine Seasons I didn’t know that he ended up on the Giants lat in his career don’t remember those years for Todd benzinger he ended up coaching girls basketball at Loveland High School in Loveland Ohio and manag the Dayton Dragons for a couple Seasons how about this in 1988 during the Morgan magic run of the Red Sox hit a 10th inning walk-off home run on July 20th that game by Red Sox fan is refer by Red Sox fans is referred to as the benzinger game we recently talked about the the Jeff Stone game for the Red Sox I feel like anytime a guy unexpectedly does something good they get a game well I think this is more impressive he ended oral hershiser’s scoreless inning streak at 59 with an RBI in the first inning of hershiser’s first start in 1989 good news for you that’s a win for you that’s two for you and three for me so we’ve got a we’ve got a barn burner here and uh I am thinking you’re going to win this one because you have got a great card here with the Blue Jays it is center fielder Lloyd Mosby Shaker Mosby Lloyd Mosby was got his nickname from playing basketball he was a very good basketball player also from Oakland grew up playing with Dave Stewart as we discussed in the recent episode he went to Oakland High School but was born in Arkansas and then moved there but he was a a really good player he had a couple very good years for the Blue Jays early on yeah let’s see overall 12 years in the big leagues 10 with Detroit two I’m sorry 10 with Toronto two with Detroit he is one of those Oakland boys that all grew up together playing against and with each other and then in the big leagues some of those names we mentioned on your podcast in 1988 overall let’s see 128 games 239 average 343 on base 10 home runs 42 RBI 31 stolen bases a 100 even Ops plus but a 1.9 War I think he’s got a mustache here it’s a it’s a wispy one but I’ll give it to you so that’ll take you up to an even two yeah it’s a good looking card he’s got wristbands but not Mims bands unfortunately some Franklin batting gloves bright blue Lloyd Mosby is exactly one of the guys who I’d prefer in 1987 statline on first round pick second overall in 1978 Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame played in yamay Yuri oh boy yeah he’s the guy and you will see this in every Major League blue film where he’s on first base and he steals second but the ball’s put in play and he doesn’t know where the ball is and he runs back to First and they try to throw him out there and the ball gets away and then he goes back so he kind of stole second then kind of stole first and then kind of advanced a second and was uh very tired by the time that rundown ended and he was part of that killer bees Outfield with George Bell Jesse Barfield and Lloyd MOS be that’s a bit of a stretch but I like it all right uh so that’s a two even and you are going up against Orioles outfielder Jim trabber so Jim trabber is now he’s like a a shock jock radio DJ him and Joey Floorwax when you were talking about Michael florx Michael I remember there was a show it had the scar brothers and they would watch these old cheap seats and they were always talking about Michael Flor wax and it was always Steve Garvey and Michael florx and they were like Flor wax is at it again yeah that’s cuz he was in the the Steve Garvey billfish not don’t call us Marlins special that I talked about a week or two ago so let’s see Jim trabber four years in the big leagues all of it with Baltimore let’s see in 1988 wow in 103 games he hit 222 is 261 on base 10 home runs 45 RBI a 57 or I’m sorry a 66 Ops plus and a minus 1.2 War uh so unless he has been on a bunch of TV shows that I have never heard of I think well he wasn’t but he is in broadcast media he also sang the national anthem the night of his MLB debut he was an accomplished singer he grew up in the Baltimore area and he sang the national anthem I think in the and then at Memorial Stadium on the day of his debut he also played football at Oklahoma State a really good athlete and his yeah nickname is the whammer what that’s like champ in Anchor Man oh the whammer was the Babe Ruth in the natural as well he he went on to play for the ketsu buffalos and he was kicked in the head in a fight and there’s some very good footage of this brawl well that’s that was the second clip that you’ll see a lot of him in Japan the first one when he got hit he charged the mound and the Pitcher just took off and ran for quite a while ah Jim trabber not going to help me out here and that’s going to tie up the score now at three a piece all right your next card here is we’re a future manager but this is a good-looking card here for the Giants catcher Bob Melvin and you’re going to get some points right away because he’s got ey black on and he’s got some real stirrups so that’s always a good thing Bell overall 10 years in the big leagues three with the Giants three with the O’s and then a bunch of other teams in 1988 for the Giants 92 games 234 average 268 on base eight home runs 27 RBI and 87 Ops plus and that is good for a 0.9 War plus the aforementioned I black and stups will take you to a 1.1 I think Bowl probably known more for his managing than he was as a player not a bad player traded along with senior smoke Juan Baron gar at one point for Matt noes bunch of names we mentioned earlier in the Pod first round draft pick second overall by the Tigers in 1981 a lot of accolades as a manager pop culture though I’m not sure unless you count like A’s promotional commercials which are always good I’m not sure I can give him anything else yeah I’m not seeing much on his Wikipedia but it looks like a lot of his value came on the defensive side not necessarily on the offensive side but a good defensive catcher and a 10-year career as a backup catcher not too sh yeah all right well let’s go from one catcher to another I’ve got catcher for the Blue Jays lover of Ricky Henderson during the 89 ALCS it’s Ernie wit GNA get mustache points here Leo Ernest wit overall 15 years in the big leagues 12 with Toronto and then Atlanta Baltimore and Boston let’s see 1988 127 games 251 average 348 on BAS base 16 home runs 70 RBI a 112 Ops plus and a 2.8 War he has got a great mustache on here I’m not sure if that’s I’m not sure if that’s a 2/10 or not I’m not sure I’m going to need it with a 2.8 War but I mean it does fill the entire space between the nose and the lip which is always important when judging mustaches Whit was a part owner of the Mother’s Pizza chain in Southern Ontario in 1983 mother’s piz Pizza featured an Ernie wit special but I I can’t find I I have searched for it to see what exactly was on that before and could not that I don’t know if that counts as Pop Culture Ernie witz been the longtime manager of the Canadian national baseball team at World Baseball Classics at the Olympics just a and is in the Ontario Sports Hall of Fame as well as the Canadian Baseball Hall of Fame all right so I will pick up the win there with Ernie Wht I am four to three and let’s see if I can put this away or not you have got pitcher for the Brewers with a great mustache and some fantastic stirups Mark clear I believe Mark clear is one of the more prominent Jewish players in Major League Baseball overall 11 years in the big leagues five with Boston 3 with Milwaukee 3 with the angels 1988 with Milwaukee he appeared in 25 games went 1 and0 with a 2.79 erra 29 Innings pitched 23 hits it’s 26 strikeouts for a 144 erra plus and that is good for A3 War he has got stirrups you know in 1988 people weren’t wearing stirups up to their knees but he has got it there I mean he would fit right in today and he’s got a great mustache there so you will get two10 of a point out of that I would if I could give you Bo bonus points for the Brewers uniforms but I we I would give everybody points for every uniform just about at this time traded with Carney Lansford from the angels to the Red Sox at one point for Rick burlson and Butch Hobson in terms of Pop Culture points though I I just I don’t think I don’t think you’re going to score anymore you’ve got a positive five which might be good because you’re going to be going up against Dodger third baseman Jeff Hamilton Hamilton six years in the big leagues all of it with the Dodgers in 19 88 appeared in 111 games wow as a as a third baseman short stop and first baseman hit 236 268 on base six home runs 33 RBI and a 79 LPS but apparently that defense is working for him A7 War nothing on this card is going to help me out let’s he won a World Series ring with the Dodgers in 88 which of course he did P five games though in the World Series and hit a buck five 105 not not his best time he did Pitch in 1989 how about that though he took a loss pitched an inning in two3 5.4 ER and struck out two wow as a position player wow listen who he struck he struck out Billy Hatcher and Ken CTI and then gave up the game-winning hit to Rafael Ramirez that was the 22 inning game that lasted over 7 hours no zombie runner in that one no it is interesting that his the line on his card does say or that the line in 1988 says that he played in 111 games that Dodgers team had so many injuries that Jeff Hamilton was getting significant playing time well I hate to tell you this but that’s a s which is greater than a05 and I will take the Victory and I will tell Mark he can suck it all right hopefully he’s enjoying his vacation yeah yeah he will be back next week but that is going to wrap up the wax pack Heroes that’ll bump me up to 13 wins I’m starting to smell it now that’s going to do it for this episode David where can people find the 1988 Tops podcast all of your podcast platforms just look for 1988 Topps find us on whatever social media you prefer we’re mostly on Blue Sky 1988 Topps podcast but we’re also active on Facebook or you can email me at 1988 Toops podcast gmail.com all right well thank you once again I think I said it like 8,000 times last week but David mcellis of the 1988 Topps podcast if you’re not listening to that podcast I don’t know why not I mean I mention it like eight times every episode because we cover many of the same topics but those guys are just they’re really great and I enjoy talking with them but what we did when we teamed up with them is we decided we were going to do a little raffle because last time I was hanging out with my buddy Stu it’s not the way it really happened but last time I I was in the vicinity of Dave Stewart I had a couple of these Dave Stewart replica jerseys that they gave away when they retired his number in Oakland and so I got a couple of them signed one for me and one expressly for this situation what we did had you I told you you just got to listen to both podcasts when I was on theirs talking about the aformentioned Dave Stewart and then last week’s when David was here and I asked a question that referenced both of those shows and all you had to do was send me a DM on Blue Sky with the answer to those questions and you would be entered so we’ve got we’ve got a pretty good uh pool of entries here and some of these I don’t know these are new listeners some of these we’ve got some of our usuals but we’ve also got some some new listeners so we really appreciate that good luck to everybody I’ve taken everybody’s name here I’ve put them in the wheel of names randomizer and we’re going to go ahead and spin this bad boy and see who we have got and the winner is this is a name this is one of those I think new names Applause there uh the winner is Matt Albertson where to go Matt way to go if you are a new listener because I don’t not looking at the messages and I don’t recognize that name we hope you’re still listening I will send you a reply and ask for an an address that I can send this and you should by the New Year have a cool new piece of memorabilia so congratulations to Matt Albertson and again thank you everybody for uh sending me those answers and for listening to the podcast we really appreciate all right Mark that’s going to do it this is a pretty easy one for you to get back in the swing of things yeah it’s coming off of a tropical vacation going back to work was a little rough so I’m still a little mentally back in Raton which by the way you’re not supposed to go anymore after you left they’re like don’t send us anymore please if that’s what you’re sending us I think I think I had something to do with it you know but uh the monkeys jumping on me and going through my beard and then eating iguana I’m ready to do some baseball baby all right well uh we’re not going to have a show next week we’re going to take some time off here with the holidays I think everybody is with friends and family hopefully everybody is in good health and doing well happy holidays to everybody that celebrates it and uh if you want more of us you can always find us on the internet just search for two strike noise that is tww Strike noise you can also find all of the links down in the social make sure to check out our YouTube page I’ve got some new videos up there I’ve been streaming a couple of times a week on on U twitch couple of you have been joining in and we’ve been doing some baseball dailies which is a lot of fun I’m really enjoying that and Mark we’ve also been getting some emails of which you are the keeper of do you want to tell them how to do that yeah you can reach us at two strike noise spell it out tww strike noise gmail.com and we’ve been getting a lot of emails and bear with me because I was out of town for 10 days so uh I’ll get back to you I promise all right yeah thank you everybody for listening everybody have a happy and a safe holiday if you are celebrating it and we will see you again I’m not sure it probably be the new year that we talk to everybody again but I will be on Twitch if you want to pop in there and join us there but all right that’ll do it for this episode of two strike noise we’ll see you again next time thank you God bless you have a great day [Music] [Music]

In this episode of ’Two Strike Noise,’ hosts Jeff and Mark cover a wide range of baseball history topics including the career of Babe Herman, Lloyd Moseby’s adventures, and Sammy Sosa’s recent apology. The show also features a comical recount of Herman’s on-field exploits and ends with the popular Wax Packs Heroes segment. Tune in for insightful baseball trivia, guest appearances, and the exciting giveaway winner announcement!

00:00 Welcome and Introductions
00:37 Recap of Last Week’s Episode
02:39 Rocky Colavito Tribute
05:15 Sammy Sosa’s Apology
07:05 Albert Spalding’s Impressive Stats
13:49 Babe Herman’s Baseball Journey
30:52 Wax Packs Heroes
33:51 Unpacking the Cellophane Pack
34:34 First Card: Brian Downing
37:31 Manager Card: Jim Fregosi
38:55 Randy St. Claire and Scott Bales
40:54 Juan Beniquez and Jeff Robinson
44:07 Mel Hall and Bob Dernier
47:54 John Kruk and Todd Benzinger
53:20 Lloyd Mosby and Jim Traber
57:40 Bob Melvin and Ernie Witt
01:00:29 Mark Clear and Jeff Hamilton
01:03:39 Wrapping Up and Announcing the Winner